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	Comments on: Helpful, so helpful	</title>
	<atom:link href="https://thenewneo.com/2006/12/06/helpful-so-helpful/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>https://thenewneo.com/2006/12/06/helpful-so-helpful/</link>
	<description>A blog about political change, among other things</description>
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		<title>
		By: Ymarsakar		</title>
		<link>https://thenewneo.com/2006/12/06/helpful-so-helpful/#comment-22800</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Ymarsakar]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 07 Dec 2006 22:15:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://neoneocon.com/2006/12/helpful-so-helpful.html#comment-22800</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[I worry every night that not enough terrorists go screaming loudly into the night to die in mindless agony, Stumb. That is what I worry about every night.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I worry every night that not enough terrorists go screaming loudly into the night to die in mindless agony, Stumb. That is what I worry about every night.</p>
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		<title>
		By: stumbley		</title>
		<link>https://thenewneo.com/2006/12/06/helpful-so-helpful/#comment-22799</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[stumbley]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 07 Dec 2006 21:55:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://neoneocon.com/2006/12/helpful-so-helpful.html#comment-22799</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[&quot;change the strategy&quot;

To what? Talking with the very people who are supplying the arms, fighters, and resources that are fueling the insurgency? Including the wackos that have militias and death squads? Agreeing to abandon Israel to &quot;solve&quot; the Palestinian question?

Some strategy. I feel like those who saw the light in 1938 must have felt: we see the bridge washed out down the tracks, but everyone else is urging the engineer to open the throttle full. If you think the Middle East is unstable NOW, just wait. The next decade will be disastrous.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;change the strategy&#8221;</p>
<p>To what? Talking with the very people who are supplying the arms, fighters, and resources that are fueling the insurgency? Including the wackos that have militias and death squads? Agreeing to abandon Israel to &#8220;solve&#8221; the Palestinian question?</p>
<p>Some strategy. I feel like those who saw the light in 1938 must have felt: we see the bridge washed out down the tracks, but everyone else is urging the engineer to open the throttle full. If you think the Middle East is unstable NOW, just wait. The next decade will be disastrous.</p>
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		<title>
		By: unknown blogger		</title>
		<link>https://thenewneo.com/2006/12/06/helpful-so-helpful/#comment-22798</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[unknown blogger]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 07 Dec 2006 21:20:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://neoneocon.com/2006/12/helpful-so-helpful.html#comment-22798</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[No Stumbley, they never cared a bit for what &quot;the impatient leftists&quot; thought. Face it: it&#039;s the middle, and even many on the right, who have grown impatient.

Remember at the time of the memo they were *publicly* (Yammer take note) saying that no major changes were needed, merely because they believed that to be the politically expedient choice.

They themselves set up those high expectations. Over and over they have been telling us &quot;we have turned a corner&quot; - The fall of Baghdad, the killling of the sons, the capture of Saddam, the purple fingers, the killing of Zarqawi...and now after 5 years record levels of violence and death. Why should anyone find that acceptable? Why not change strategy?]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>No Stumbley, they never cared a bit for what &#8220;the impatient leftists&#8221; thought. Face it: it&#8217;s the middle, and even many on the right, who have grown impatient.</p>
<p>Remember at the time of the memo they were *publicly* (Yammer take note) saying that no major changes were needed, merely because they believed that to be the politically expedient choice.</p>
<p>They themselves set up those high expectations. Over and over they have been telling us &#8220;we have turned a corner&#8221; &#8211; The fall of Baghdad, the killling of the sons, the capture of Saddam, the purple fingers, the killing of Zarqawi&#8230;and now after 5 years record levels of violence and death. Why should anyone find that acceptable? Why not change strategy?</p>
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		<title>
		By: stumbley		</title>
		<link>https://thenewneo.com/2006/12/06/helpful-so-helpful/#comment-22797</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[stumbley]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 07 Dec 2006 21:02:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://neoneocon.com/2006/12/helpful-so-helpful.html#comment-22797</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[What strikes me as odd about the whole ISG thing is that people are actually listening to folks who, when they were in charge, were just as powerless to effect change as anybody else in the ME. I mean, really—James Baker? Leon Panetta? What wonderful policy magic did *these* folks work on the Israeli-Pali mess? What ME foreign policy successes can ANY of them point to? The only administration who&#039;s had the grand vision of *really* shaking things up in the ME is W&#039;s...and he articulated from the beginning that it would be a long, hard process. Never said anything different.

When the plug was pulled on &quot;the former Yugoslavia,&quot; ethnic strife raged for years. We sent troops that &quot;would be out by Christmas&quot;.

We&#039;re still there. Nobody said that Clinton was an idiot, or started an &quot;illegal&quot; war, or jumped into a sectarian fight that had nothing to do with America. Kosovo had less to do with our strategic interests than Iraq, and HARDLY ANYONE seems to care that we &quot;killed thousands&quot; or &quot;bombed civilians&quot; or that our &quot;boys died for nothing&quot;.

I really, really am worried about the future.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>What strikes me as odd about the whole ISG thing is that people are actually listening to folks who, when they were in charge, were just as powerless to effect change as anybody else in the ME. I mean, really—James Baker? Leon Panetta? What wonderful policy magic did *these* folks work on the Israeli-Pali mess? What ME foreign policy successes can ANY of them point to? The only administration who&#8217;s had the grand vision of *really* shaking things up in the ME is W&#8217;s&#8230;and he articulated from the beginning that it would be a long, hard process. Never said anything different.</p>
<p>When the plug was pulled on &#8220;the former Yugoslavia,&#8221; ethnic strife raged for years. We sent troops that &#8220;would be out by Christmas&#8221;.</p>
<p>We&#8217;re still there. Nobody said that Clinton was an idiot, or started an &#8220;illegal&#8221; war, or jumped into a sectarian fight that had nothing to do with America. Kosovo had less to do with our strategic interests than Iraq, and HARDLY ANYONE seems to care that we &#8220;killed thousands&#8221; or &#8220;bombed civilians&#8221; or that our &#8220;boys died for nothing&#8221;.</p>
<p>I really, really am worried about the future.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Ymarsakar		</title>
		<link>https://thenewneo.com/2006/12/06/helpful-so-helpful/#comment-22796</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Ymarsakar]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 07 Dec 2006 09:39:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://neoneocon.com/2006/12/helpful-so-helpful.html#comment-22796</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[I don&#039;t think wordpress.com has a ban feature, but deletion is probably easier. I don&#039;t use haloscan so I don&#039;t know by what mechanism you use to delete the comments.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I don&#8217;t think wordpress.com has a ban feature, but deletion is probably easier. I don&#8217;t use haloscan so I don&#8217;t know by what mechanism you use to delete the comments.</p>
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		<title>
		By: kungfu		</title>
		<link>https://thenewneo.com/2006/12/06/helpful-so-helpful/#comment-22795</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[kungfu]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 07 Dec 2006 08:55:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://neoneocon.com/2006/12/helpful-so-helpful.html#comment-22795</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Neo,

You seemed to have turned to &quot;desparation blame game&quot; lately when it come to Iraq.  Let&#039;s just all admit this is a huge mess that needs fixing.  I don&#039;t think James Baker is coming from the left, or the evil MSM out to destroy  good &#039;ol USA.  It&#039;s time to get serious about how screwed up the whole situation is.  I&#039;d say we could really use Bush 41 in this situation.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Neo,</p>
<p>You seemed to have turned to &#8220;desparation blame game&#8221; lately when it come to Iraq.  Let&#8217;s just all admit this is a huge mess that needs fixing.  I don&#8217;t think James Baker is coming from the left, or the evil MSM out to destroy  good &#8216;ol USA.  It&#8217;s time to get serious about how screwed up the whole situation is.  I&#8217;d say we could really use Bush 41 in this situation.</p>
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		<title>
		By: gravitas		</title>
		<link>https://thenewneo.com/2006/12/06/helpful-so-helpful/#comment-22794</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[gravitas]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 07 Dec 2006 06:49:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://neoneocon.com/2006/12/helpful-so-helpful.html#comment-22794</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Great suggestions about nuking the muzzies, but don&#039;t we have a secret weapon here in the West? take a few thousand of them with relatives in iran and Syria hostage, and kill a few score a day until the regimes there see the light. Harsh, but less deadly than huking Tehran. What do people think?]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Great suggestions about nuking the muzzies, but don&#8217;t we have a secret weapon here in the West? take a few thousand of them with relatives in iran and Syria hostage, and kill a few score a day until the regimes there see the light. Harsh, but less deadly than huking Tehran. What do people think?</p>
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		<title>
		By: Richard Aubrey		</title>
		<link>https://thenewneo.com/2006/12/06/helpful-so-helpful/#comment-22792</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Richard Aubrey]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 07 Dec 2006 06:40:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://neoneocon.com/2006/12/helpful-so-helpful.html#comment-22792</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Been to Kansas. Beautiful state.

Two million, huh?  Sounds like the El Salvador dead civilian count. Up it by 10k each year.  That way, you don&#039;t need to actually count.  I was there in 1987 and discovered it was, per capita, safer than Detroit.  I know, a better standard would be better, but still....


Anyway, just, whatcha gonna do when we win?]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Been to Kansas. Beautiful state.</p>
<p>Two million, huh?  Sounds like the El Salvador dead civilian count. Up it by 10k each year.  That way, you don&#8217;t need to actually count.  I was there in 1987 and discovered it was, per capita, safer than Detroit.  I know, a better standard would be better, but still&#8230;.</p>
<p>Anyway, just, whatcha gonna do when we win?</p>
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		<title>
		By: stumbley		</title>
		<link>https://thenewneo.com/2006/12/06/helpful-so-helpful/#comment-22793</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[stumbley]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 07 Dec 2006 05:29:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://neoneocon.com/2006/12/helpful-so-helpful.html#comment-22793</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[justa:

You&#039;ve never been in Kansas either, and I&#039;d venture to say you know about as much about Iraq as I do.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>justa:</p>
<p>You&#8217;ve never been in Kansas either, and I&#8217;d venture to say you know about as much about Iraq as I do.</p>
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		<title>
		By: stumbley		</title>
		<link>https://thenewneo.com/2006/12/06/helpful-so-helpful/#comment-22791</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[stumbley]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 07 Dec 2006 05:06:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://neoneocon.com/2006/12/helpful-so-helpful.html#comment-22791</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[UB:

The operative phrase in the memo is &quot;not working well enough or fast enough&quot;. Doesn&#039;t say we&#039;re *not winning*, but recognizes the lack of will to continue the hard slog at this pace. The &quot;adjustment&quot; needs to be made so that the impatient leftists who profess to desire freedom and democracy for the Iraqis—you know, their fair-weather, no sweat friends—can be satisfied sooner. The fact that the rest of the world expects a country whose citizens have not experienced actual democracy for their entire lifetimes to be Switzerland in 5 years simply astounds me.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>UB:</p>
<p>The operative phrase in the memo is &#8220;not working well enough or fast enough&#8221;. Doesn&#8217;t say we&#8217;re *not winning*, but recognizes the lack of will to continue the hard slog at this pace. The &#8220;adjustment&#8221; needs to be made so that the impatient leftists who profess to desire freedom and democracy for the Iraqis—you know, their fair-weather, no sweat friends—can be satisfied sooner. The fact that the rest of the world expects a country whose citizens have not experienced actual democracy for their entire lifetimes to be Switzerland in 5 years simply astounds me.</p>
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