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	Comments on: Hanson puts his finger on it	</title>
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	<link>https://thenewneo.com/2006/11/30/hanson-puts-his-finger-on-it/</link>
	<description>A blog about political change, among other things</description>
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		<title>
		By: Ariel		</title>
		<link>https://thenewneo.com/2006/11/30/hanson-puts-his-finger-on-it/#comment-22442</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Ariel]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 03 Dec 2006 03:37:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://neoneocon.com/2006/11/hanson-puts-his-finger-on-it.html#comment-22442</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Sergey &#124; 12.02.06 - 4:48 am

Well said.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Sergey | 12.02.06 &#8211; 4:48 am</p>
<p>Well said.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Sergey		</title>
		<link>https://thenewneo.com/2006/11/30/hanson-puts-his-finger-on-it/#comment-22409</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Sergey]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 02 Dec 2006 14:43:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://neoneocon.com/2006/11/hanson-puts-his-finger-on-it.html#comment-22409</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[VDH concept of Enlightenment is much more wide that usually is associated with this notion in popular thought. It includes 2500 years of European history, not only last 300 years. It includes Socrates and Plato, Euclid and Euripid, heroism of 300 Spartans and explain why Greeks defeated Persians and Romans defeated Carthago. In short, for him Enlightenment is the soul of Western civilization in all its achievements in sciences, religion and philosophy, the unique quality that makes it so exceptional and mighty, so superior over any other culture in almost every conceivable aspect. Many critics there, it seems, misunderstood this point completely and try to reduce this deep and wide historical perspective to trivial domestic issues of fleeting importance. This myopia is exactly one of symptoms of sickness of modern West that was the theme of his essay.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>VDH concept of Enlightenment is much more wide that usually is associated with this notion in popular thought. It includes 2500 years of European history, not only last 300 years. It includes Socrates and Plato, Euclid and Euripid, heroism of 300 Spartans and explain why Greeks defeated Persians and Romans defeated Carthago. In short, for him Enlightenment is the soul of Western civilization in all its achievements in sciences, religion and philosophy, the unique quality that makes it so exceptional and mighty, so superior over any other culture in almost every conceivable aspect. Many critics there, it seems, misunderstood this point completely and try to reduce this deep and wide historical perspective to trivial domestic issues of fleeting importance. This myopia is exactly one of symptoms of sickness of modern West that was the theme of his essay.</p>
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		<title>
		By: david foster		</title>
		<link>https://thenewneo.com/2006/11/30/hanson-puts-his-finger-on-it/#comment-22441</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[david foster]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 02 Dec 2006 08:37:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://neoneocon.com/2006/11/hanson-puts-his-finger-on-it.html#comment-22441</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[&quot;the technological explosion of the last 20 years has made life so long and so good, that many now believe our mastery of nature must extend to human nature as well&quot;...C S Lewis made a similar comment, pointing out that since a new model of a machine is usually better than the old model, people assume the same to be true of human affairs. (Of course, the &quot;newer is better&quot; mere isn&#039;t always true even of machines: manufacturers will often mess up a successful model while trying to improve it)]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;the technological explosion of the last 20 years has made life so long and so good, that many now believe our mastery of nature must extend to human nature as well&#8221;&#8230;C S Lewis made a similar comment, pointing out that since a new model of a machine is usually better than the old model, people assume the same to be true of human affairs. (Of course, the &#8220;newer is better&#8221; mere isn&#8217;t always true even of machines: manufacturers will often mess up a successful model while trying to improve it)</p>
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		<title>
		By: Sergey		</title>
		<link>https://thenewneo.com/2006/11/30/hanson-puts-his-finger-on-it/#comment-22440</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Sergey]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 02 Dec 2006 04:25:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://neoneocon.com/2006/11/hanson-puts-his-finger-on-it.html#comment-22440</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[&quot;The heritage of the Enlightenment was not Religion. That much I do know.&quot;

Pity for you, if this trivial statement is all you know about Enlightenment and religion. Of course, religion is much more deep and ancient that Enlightenment. But the latter in no way replaced or outshine the former, as is implied in your declaration. Quite contrary, Enlightenment gave Christianity a new dimension and depth: individual responsibility and perspective of unlimited spiritual growth. Of course, if Enlightenment for you is associated only with such figures as Didro or Laplace, this common fallacy of opposing Enlightenment and religion, or faith and reason, is understandable: these French philosophers were atheists. But Enlightenment also included deeply religious figures, even mystics, as Bles Pascal, Isaak Newton, George Berkeley and David Hume, representing Renaissance Augustinianism.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;The heritage of the Enlightenment was not Religion. That much I do know.&#8221;</p>
<p>Pity for you, if this trivial statement is all you know about Enlightenment and religion. Of course, religion is much more deep and ancient that Enlightenment. But the latter in no way replaced or outshine the former, as is implied in your declaration. Quite contrary, Enlightenment gave Christianity a new dimension and depth: individual responsibility and perspective of unlimited spiritual growth. Of course, if Enlightenment for you is associated only with such figures as Didro or Laplace, this common fallacy of opposing Enlightenment and religion, or faith and reason, is understandable: these French philosophers were atheists. But Enlightenment also included deeply religious figures, even mystics, as Bles Pascal, Isaak Newton, George Berkeley and David Hume, representing Renaissance Augustinianism.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Ymarsakar		</title>
		<link>https://thenewneo.com/2006/11/30/hanson-puts-his-finger-on-it/#comment-22439</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Ymarsakar]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 02 Dec 2006 00:49:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://neoneocon.com/2006/11/hanson-puts-his-finger-on-it.html#comment-22439</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Come on Unk, you&#039;re on the shrink blogs. It is all about reading past to your Real motivations. So tell us how you really feel, don&#039;t hide.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Come on Unk, you&#8217;re on the shrink blogs. It is all about reading past to your Real motivations. So tell us how you really feel, don&#8217;t hide.</p>
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		<title>
		By: unknown blogger		</title>
		<link>https://thenewneo.com/2006/11/30/hanson-puts-his-finger-on-it/#comment-22438</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[unknown blogger]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 02 Dec 2006 00:38:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://neoneocon.com/2006/11/hanson-puts-his-finger-on-it.html#comment-22438</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[By no means. what crystal ball did you pull THAT out of? I meant just what I wrote.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>By no means. what crystal ball did you pull THAT out of? I meant just what I wrote.</p>
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		<title>
		By: a guy in pajamas		</title>
		<link>https://thenewneo.com/2006/11/30/hanson-puts-his-finger-on-it/#comment-22437</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[a guy in pajamas]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 02 Dec 2006 00:23:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://neoneocon.com/2006/11/hanson-puts-his-finger-on-it.html#comment-22437</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[unknown blogger: &lt;i&gt;I knew it would be this way, when things didn&#039;t turn out well, just blame the left, blame the media, blame the &quot;élite,&quot; since if they had all just gotten on board and rooted hard for the home team from the beginning, everything would have turned out ok.&lt;/i&gt;

Hmmm, let&#039;s see ... If only Al Gore had taken his rightful place as president in 2000, 9/11 would have engendered a period of American soul-searching, a dialogue with those responsible, greater global understanding, repentance and mutual forgiveness (them for the small crime of 9/11, us for the huge crime of capitalism / imperialism); global warming would have been stopped; poverty eliminated; AIDS cured (instead of bombs bought); freedom and liberty spread ...

Right?]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>unknown blogger: <i>I knew it would be this way, when things didn&#8217;t turn out well, just blame the left, blame the media, blame the &#8220;élite,&#8221; since if they had all just gotten on board and rooted hard for the home team from the beginning, everything would have turned out ok.</i></p>
<p>Hmmm, let&#8217;s see &#8230; If only Al Gore had taken his rightful place as president in 2000, 9/11 would have engendered a period of American soul-searching, a dialogue with those responsible, greater global understanding, repentance and mutual forgiveness (them for the small crime of 9/11, us for the huge crime of capitalism / imperialism); global warming would have been stopped; poverty eliminated; AIDS cured (instead of bombs bought); freedom and liberty spread &#8230;</p>
<p>Right?</p>
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		<title>
		By: a guy in pajamas		</title>
		<link>https://thenewneo.com/2006/11/30/hanson-puts-his-finger-on-it/#comment-22436</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[a guy in pajamas]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 02 Dec 2006 00:06:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://neoneocon.com/2006/11/hanson-puts-his-finger-on-it.html#comment-22436</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Mr. Hoffman: &lt;i&gt;Gee, I know I have some personal issues to deal with, Hanson, but could you cut me some slack? I actually voted for Brown out of my personal conviction that DeWine has supported a foreign policy debacle that now rivals LBJ&#039;s quagmire in Vietnam. But since I am a Vietnam veteran, according to Hanson&#039;s reasoning, I voted for Brown because I am a self-hating Vietnam veteran.&lt;/i&gt;

Actually, VDH isn&#039;t saying you hate yourself as an individual.  I think he  believes the general reaction against Bush is part of a reaction against America that the left seems to have bought into.  I have no idea about you personally, but I do agree that the left in general seems to have an intense dislike for the US as a nation.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Mr. Hoffman: <i>Gee, I know I have some personal issues to deal with, Hanson, but could you cut me some slack? I actually voted for Brown out of my personal conviction that DeWine has supported a foreign policy debacle that now rivals LBJ&#8217;s quagmire in Vietnam. But since I am a Vietnam veteran, according to Hanson&#8217;s reasoning, I voted for Brown because I am a self-hating Vietnam veteran.</i></p>
<p>Actually, VDH isn&#8217;t saying you hate yourself as an individual.  I think he  believes the general reaction against Bush is part of a reaction against America that the left seems to have bought into.  I have no idea about you personally, but I do agree that the left in general seems to have an intense dislike for the US as a nation.</p>
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		<title>
		By: a guy in pajamas		</title>
		<link>https://thenewneo.com/2006/11/30/hanson-puts-his-finger-on-it/#comment-22435</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[a guy in pajamas]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 01 Dec 2006 23:56:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://neoneocon.com/2006/11/hanson-puts-his-finger-on-it.html#comment-22435</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Jay, I think we agree on the broad outlines, but ...

Jay: &lt;i&gt;Galileo, by the way, was slapped around because he was a total prick, who poked fun at the current pope, Urban XIII (who was a prick in his own right), in a play. Combine that with the fact that Galileo went around saying heliocentrism contradicted (his own interpretation of) scripture, and you can see why they got all Inquisitorial on him.&lt;/i&gt;

Actually, it was a book, not a play, the pope was Urban VIII, and Galileo didn&#039;t go around saying heliocentrism contradicted scripture.  Galileo was deeply involved in patronage relationships in Rome, including with the pope through his secretary, Ciampolo.  When Ciampolo fell from favor with the pope, Ciampolo&#039;s buddy Galileo also became a target.  The whole trial, etc., was mostly a patronage relationship gone bad, and Galileo&#039;s theories were tangential.  Galileo even had prior approval from both the pope and a Catholic censor to publish the book.  See Mario Biagioli, &lt;i&gt;Galileo, Courtier&lt;/i&gt;, for all the sordid details.

&lt;i&gt;The artificial wall of science vs. religion has gained ground in the last century or so because of the liberalization/secularization of academia and the American evangelical response to it.&lt;/i&gt;

Actually, it started more in the 18th century with the Enlightenment and the attempt to replace Church authority with reason as the foundation of civilization.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Jay, I think we agree on the broad outlines, but &#8230;</p>
<p>Jay: <i>Galileo, by the way, was slapped around because he was a total prick, who poked fun at the current pope, Urban XIII (who was a prick in his own right), in a play. Combine that with the fact that Galileo went around saying heliocentrism contradicted (his own interpretation of) scripture, and you can see why they got all Inquisitorial on him.</i></p>
<p>Actually, it was a book, not a play, the pope was Urban VIII, and Galileo didn&#8217;t go around saying heliocentrism contradicted scripture.  Galileo was deeply involved in patronage relationships in Rome, including with the pope through his secretary, Ciampolo.  When Ciampolo fell from favor with the pope, Ciampolo&#8217;s buddy Galileo also became a target.  The whole trial, etc., was mostly a patronage relationship gone bad, and Galileo&#8217;s theories were tangential.  Galileo even had prior approval from both the pope and a Catholic censor to publish the book.  See Mario Biagioli, <i>Galileo, Courtier</i>, for all the sordid details.</p>
<p><i>The artificial wall of science vs. religion has gained ground in the last century or so because of the liberalization/secularization of academia and the American evangelical response to it.</i></p>
<p>Actually, it started more in the 18th century with the Enlightenment and the attempt to replace Church authority with reason as the foundation of civilization.</p>
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		<title>
		By: bugs		</title>
		<link>https://thenewneo.com/2006/11/30/hanson-puts-his-finger-on-it/#comment-22434</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[bugs]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 01 Dec 2006 23:43:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://neoneocon.com/2006/11/hanson-puts-his-finger-on-it.html#comment-22434</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Once again, certain commenters above criticize neo&#039;s position by creating a false dilemma. VDH (and neo)believe the West needs a greater will to fight for its own existence. The trolls respond with &quot;Oh, so your solution is more war, kill, kill, kill.&quot;

No, the solution is restoring pride in Western achievement, the belief that our heritage is worth preserving (even while acknowledging its present and historical flaws), and the will to practice our culture without shame. These changes need not lead directly to war, but we cannot rule out war when &quot;others&quot; with fewer moral qualms attempt to force their wishes upon us with violence.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Once again, certain commenters above criticize neo&#8217;s position by creating a false dilemma. VDH (and neo)believe the West needs a greater will to fight for its own existence. The trolls respond with &#8220;Oh, so your solution is more war, kill, kill, kill.&#8221;</p>
<p>No, the solution is restoring pride in Western achievement, the belief that our heritage is worth preserving (even while acknowledging its present and historical flaws), and the will to practice our culture without shame. These changes need not lead directly to war, but we cannot rule out war when &#8220;others&#8221; with fewer moral qualms attempt to force their wishes upon us with violence.</p>
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