What positives? One great positive: Israel still exists despite several attempts to destroy her. Money well spent.

No, the US encouraged Hamas to participate directly …

Again, ‘justaboy’ continues with his assertions. No link, though. Just his flat statement. Justaboy has been wrong about the facts of issues too many times for me to take this at face value.

… and blind Freddy’s dog could have predicted that they would almost certainly win a fair election. If Bush and the neocons didn’t know that, it is surely a stark reminder of their incompetence.

The whole Western world was surprised that an electorate would choose to become a terrorist state. In the West we tend to think evil leaders are entirely to blame for the perfidy of various belligerent states and forget(or deny) that most Muslims enthusiastically support terrorism. Indeed, “Freddy’s dog” could have predicted it. But Muslims don’t generally support terrorism … oh no, they just elevate it to governmental office.

… I was referring to Hamas’ unilateral cease fire, which the Israelis did not reciprocate.

Again, I was hoping for more than mere unfounded assertion, but I don’t think a link will be forthcoming no matter how much I hope. Justaboy has a set of treasured slogans that he likes to put forth, evidently believing they’ll be swallowed by the reader without challenge.

I believe it was you who brought aid into it.

No, it was justaboy: The US pays for the Israeli occupation and supplies ALL the weaponry. Over $10 billion in 2006.

BTW, Justaboy was wrong about the weaponry – Israel manufactures virtually all its own armament.

And you expect them to like you?

No, I don’t. I don’t even want them to “like” me. I figure if ‘they’ liked me then something would be drastically wrong with me. I would no longer be a civilized lover of freedom but some sort of cowed subject of the Caliphate. It’s good ‘they’ don’t like me. It means I’m still free.
 

Justaboy keeps saying this but gives no real evidence. If he is referring to the fact that the US encouraged the creation of the democratic nationhood of Palestine, of course the US did. But that doesn’t constitute encouragement of Hamas. Who would have guessed that the process would have produced a Hamas-run government, a terror group dedicated to the eradication of Israel? Certainly not our CIA, a corrupt civil service too busy with its own political agenda to provide accurate intelligence.

And, while 17 months into a unilateral cease fire

Could ‘justaboy’ be referring to the Sharm el-Sheikh Summit of 2005? But that meeting resulted in a joint declaration of cessation of violence by Sharon and Abbas. It is sometimes difficult to figure out exactly what the anti-war crowd is talking about. Like justaboy’s reference to the Warsaw Ghetto. They are strong on obscurity, conspiracy theories, sloganeering and implication, but very weak on fact-checking and explicit treatment of an issue.

Or was it all a plan to starve the Palestinians into eternal slavery to the Israeli master race?

Mostly we humans are damned by our own words. Here the reader is made painfully aware of one of the more goofy anti-war poster-level slogans. I guess this is what passes for debate in their circles.

By the way, boiled down, what the article says is that the US provides substantial aid to Israel. Duh. If that’s the best justaboy can offer … When will the anti-war crowd stop offering up the obvious as if it furthered their arguments? May the aid continue – it’s money well spent.
 

Israel’s arms industry was established by a special deal with the US and much underhanded dealing with apartheidt South Africa. Nice friends.

http://www.csmonitor.com/2002/1209/p16s01-wmgn.html

What exactly do you get for all that money except for more costs and bigger tax bills? Do they actually do anything for the US aside from make you loathed in the very region that you need to court?

It is just bizarre.

_The US gives money to a lot of folks, including the Palestinians until recently(a government run by avowed terrorists needs to raise its own money, thank you very much_

Despite Hamas being encouraged to participate by the US? And, while 17 months into a unilateral ceasefire. Seems a bit confusing to me. Or was it all a plan to starve the Palestinians into eternal slavery to the Israeli master race?

Ever read about the Warsaw ghetto?

The US gives money to a lot of folks, including the Palestinians until recently(a government run by avowed terrorists needs to raise its own money, thank you very much). And yes, the US gives a boatload of money to Israel, a policy of which I wholeheartedly approve.

I guess it’s understandable that the anti-war crowd’s assertions have little basis in fact. Fact can be a dangerous thing to denial. Actually Israel manufactures most of its own weaponry.

Point of fact: The Merkava tanks were not supplied by the US. Ditto Israeli aircraft and all the small arms. Israel manufactures most of its own weaponry. All this is easily found on the internet. Would it be too much to ask that the anti-war crowd do a bit of research and fact-checking before regurgitating anti-war slogans?

The fact is that the US and Britain are not in Lebanon or the Palestinian territories, however much the anti-war crowd try to insist that they are.
 

grackle said: The anti-war crowd always seem to exaggerate. Britain and the US are not in Palestinian territories or Lebanon. Fact-based debate is not a strong point of the anti-war crowd. Something the anti-war crowd never seems to understand: To try to appease these murderers is to invite “further attempts” and their scorn for being feckless as well.

Roger responds to grackle: No, but Israel — which has been described as “the biggest unsinkable aircraft carrier of the USA in the Middle East” — is embroiled in Lebanon and the Palestinian territories.

grackle: Roger can “describe” Israel any way he wants but the fact is that Britain and the US are not in the Palestinian territories or Lebanon. In debate the facts need to be given at least a passing nod.

Does anyone else find it amusing that the anti-war crowd alternates between vehemently declaring that terrorists are not a ‘real’ threat and cowering in fear lest we stir them up?

For the United States and Britain to “stay the course” we seem to have set for ourselves — in the Palestinian territories, in Iraq, in Iran and now in Lebanon — is to invite further such attempts, in some of which we may not be so fortunate.

No, but Israel — which has been described as “the biggest unsinkable aircraft carrier of the USA in the Middle East” — is embroiled in Lebanon and the Palestinian territories.

—

suzy asks: Who said Britain or the U.S are in Palestine or Lebanon?

Show us.

As requested by suzy:

For the United States and Britain to “stay the course” we seem to have set for ourselves — in the Palestinian territories, in Iraq, in Iran and now in Lebanon — is to invite further such attempts, in some of which we may not be so fortunate.
 

Who said Britain or the U.S are in Palestine or Lebanon?

Show us.

Well, Karen, I haven’t the learning to list all of the Islamic Empire’s atrocities–from the recent ones of Iran trying to wipe out Israel (whose ‘unfortunate neighbors’ seem to choose guerrillas, military weapons and armed missiles as a means of friendship) to all the hundreds of thousands, who have died: in Algeria, Dafur, other parts of Northern Africa; India, Afghanistan, Iraq. Muslim terrorists menace SE Asia, from Indonesia to the Phillippines. Yes, War is the favorite sport of the Muslim world, without question, for they love killing, blowing up women and especially children.
How many innocent Muslims have the jihadi ringleaders murdered because such figures did disagree, believing Islam to be a religion of peace?

I would also note that “Islam” does NOT mean peace, it properly translates as “submission”.