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	Comments on: And the voice of neo-neocon is heard in the land	</title>
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	<link>https://thenewneo.com/2006/06/24/and-voice-of-neo-neocon-is-heard-in/</link>
	<description>A blog about political change, among other things</description>
	<lastBuildDate>Mon, 26 Jun 2006 05:11:00 +0000</lastBuildDate>
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		<title>
		By: confusedforeigner		</title>
		<link>https://thenewneo.com/2006/06/24/and-voice-of-neo-neocon-is-heard-in/#comment-17875</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[confusedforeigner]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 26 Jun 2006 05:11:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://neoneocon.com/2006/06/and-voice-of-neo-neocon-is-heard-in.html#comment-17875</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[From Wiki...&lt;BR/&gt;&lt;BR/&gt;[edit]&lt;BR/&gt;Medals awarded&lt;BR/&gt;&lt;BR/&gt;While issuing notes of regret over the loss of human life, the U.S. government has, to date, neither admitted any wrong-doing or responsibility in this tragedy, nor apologised, but continues to blame Iranian hostile actions for the incident. The men of the Vincennes were all awarded combat-action ribbons. Commander Lustig, the air-warfare co-ordinator, even won the navy&#039;s Commendation Medal for &quot;heroic achievement,&quot; his &quot;ability to maintain his poise and confidence under fire&quot; having enabled him to &quot;quickly and precisely complete the firing procedure.&quot;[2] According to a 23 April 1990 article in The Washington Post, the Legion of Merit was presented to Captain Rogers and Lieutenant Commander Lustig on 3 July 1988. The citations did not mention the downing of the Iran Air flight at all. It should be noted that the Legion of Merit is often awarded to high-ranking officers upon successful completion of especially difficult duty assignments and/or last tours of duty before retirement.&lt;BR/&gt;The incident continued to overshadow U.S.-Iran relations for many years. Following the explosion of Pan Am Flight 103 six months later, the British and American governments initially blamed the PFLP-GC, a Palestinian militant group backed by Syria, with assumptions of assistance from Iran in retaliation for Iran Air Flight 655.[7] The cause of the crash was later determined to be a bomb associated with the Libyan intelligence service, though an Iranian group had claimed responsibility for it.[citation needed]&lt;BR/&gt;The Flight 655 incident has often been compared to that of Korean Air Flight 007 interception by the Soviet Air Force in 1983.&lt;BR/&gt;The Vice-President George H. W. Bush declared a month later, &quot;I will never apologise for the United States of America, ever. I don&#039;t care what it has done. I don&#039;t care what the facts are.&quot; [8][9][10][11]&lt;BR/&gt;[edit]&lt;BR/&gt;Compensation&lt;BR/&gt;&lt;BR/&gt;On February 22, 1996 the United States agreed to pay Iran US$ 61.8 million in compensation ($300,000 per wage-earning victim, $150,000 per non-wage-earner) for the 248 Iranians killed in the shootdown. This was an agreed settlement to discontinue a case brought by Iran in 1989 against the U.S. in the International Court of Justice.[12] The payment of compensation was explicitly characterised by the US as being on an ex gratia basis, and the U.S. denied having any responsibility or liability for the incident.&lt;BR/&gt;The United States has not compensated Iran for the airplane itself, to date. The aircraft was worth more than $30 million.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>From Wiki&#8230;</p>
<p>[edit]<br />Medals awarded</p>
<p>While issuing notes of regret over the loss of human life, the U.S. government has, to date, neither admitted any wrong-doing or responsibility in this tragedy, nor apologised, but continues to blame Iranian hostile actions for the incident. The men of the Vincennes were all awarded combat-action ribbons. Commander Lustig, the air-warfare co-ordinator, even won the navy&#8217;s Commendation Medal for &#8220;heroic achievement,&#8221; his &#8220;ability to maintain his poise and confidence under fire&#8221; having enabled him to &#8220;quickly and precisely complete the firing procedure.&#8221;[2] According to a 23 April 1990 article in The Washington Post, the Legion of Merit was presented to Captain Rogers and Lieutenant Commander Lustig on 3 July 1988. The citations did not mention the downing of the Iran Air flight at all. It should be noted that the Legion of Merit is often awarded to high-ranking officers upon successful completion of especially difficult duty assignments and/or last tours of duty before retirement.<br />The incident continued to overshadow U.S.-Iran relations for many years. Following the explosion of Pan Am Flight 103 six months later, the British and American governments initially blamed the PFLP-GC, a Palestinian militant group backed by Syria, with assumptions of assistance from Iran in retaliation for Iran Air Flight 655.[7] The cause of the crash was later determined to be a bomb associated with the Libyan intelligence service, though an Iranian group had claimed responsibility for it.[citation needed]<br />The Flight 655 incident has often been compared to that of Korean Air Flight 007 interception by the Soviet Air Force in 1983.<br />The Vice-President George H. W. Bush declared a month later, &#8220;I will never apologise for the United States of America, ever. I don&#8217;t care what it has done. I don&#8217;t care what the facts are.&#8221; [8][9][10][11]<br />[edit]<br />Compensation</p>
<p>On February 22, 1996 the United States agreed to pay Iran US$ 61.8 million in compensation ($300,000 per wage-earning victim, $150,000 per non-wage-earner) for the 248 Iranians killed in the shootdown. This was an agreed settlement to discontinue a case brought by Iran in 1989 against the U.S. in the International Court of Justice.[12] The payment of compensation was explicitly characterised by the US as being on an ex gratia basis, and the U.S. denied having any responsibility or liability for the incident.<br />The United States has not compensated Iran for the airplane itself, to date. The aircraft was worth more than $30 million.</p>
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		<title>
		By: confusedforeigner		</title>
		<link>https://thenewneo.com/2006/06/24/and-voice-of-neo-neocon-is-heard-in/#comment-17876</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[confusedforeigner]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 26 Jun 2006 05:11:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://neoneocon.com/2006/06/and-voice-of-neo-neocon-is-heard-in.html#comment-17876</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[And still, never owned up to. And the captain was decorated FFS.&lt;BR/&gt;&lt;BR/&gt;Hypocrites. No credibility, no moral high ground.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>And still, never owned up to. And the captain was decorated FFS.</p>
<p>Hypocrites. No credibility, no moral high ground.</p>
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		<title>
		By: confusedforeigner		</title>
		<link>https://thenewneo.com/2006/06/24/and-voice-of-neo-neocon-is-heard-in/#comment-17877</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[confusedforeigner]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 26 Jun 2006 05:11:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://neoneocon.com/2006/06/and-voice-of-neo-neocon-is-heard-in.html#comment-17877</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Sally......Which may not be strictly an &quot;apology&quot;, but which is pretty close&lt;BR/&gt;&lt;BR/&gt;&lt;BR/&gt;So, I was right. NO APOLOGY. And how long did it take for threm to pay the compensation Sally? Clinton wasn&#039;t it?]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Sally&#8230;&#8230;Which may not be strictly an &#8220;apology&#8221;, but which is pretty close</p>
<p>So, I was right. NO APOLOGY. And how long did it take for threm to pay the compensation Sally? Clinton wasn&#8217;t it?</p>
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		<title>
		By: Ymarsakar		</title>
		<link>https://thenewneo.com/2006/06/24/and-voice-of-neo-neocon-is-heard-in/#comment-17878</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Ymarsakar]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 26 Jun 2006 05:11:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://neoneocon.com/2006/06/and-voice-of-neo-neocon-is-heard-in.html#comment-17878</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[I don&#039;t care, so it is easy for me to tune it out.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I don&#8217;t care, so it is easy for me to tune it out.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Ariel		</title>
		<link>https://thenewneo.com/2006/06/24/and-voice-of-neo-neocon-is-heard-in/#comment-17879</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Ariel]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 26 Jun 2006 05:11:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://neoneocon.com/2006/06/and-voice-of-neo-neocon-is-heard-in.html#comment-17879</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Sally, Dougla, et al.&lt;BR/&gt;&lt;BR/&gt;I do thank you for your replies, however, I had earlier decided, and promised, to no longer engage the trolls. I look at their nasty insults, challenges, etc. as comic relief.&lt;BR/&gt;&lt;BR/&gt;I have broken that promise once only, in Neo&#039;s post &quot;Islam: tear down this wall&quot;, because I could not let stand neo-nazi/Aryan Nation anti-semitic tripe. If you haven&#039;t read her post and comments I suggest you do.&lt;BR/&gt;I will not engage trolls again.&lt;BR/&gt;&lt;BR/&gt;If you run across such quotes and are suspicious, please go to The Talmud Exposed (google it) which is &quot;a project to provide responses to the anti-Semites who post alleged quotes from the Talmud and other anti-Jewish propaganda in a way intended to promote hatred of Jews.&quot;]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Sally, Dougla, et al.</p>
<p>I do thank you for your replies, however, I had earlier decided, and promised, to no longer engage the trolls. I look at their nasty insults, challenges, etc. as comic relief.</p>
<p>I have broken that promise once only, in Neo&#8217;s post &#8220;Islam: tear down this wall&#8221;, because I could not let stand neo-nazi/Aryan Nation anti-semitic tripe. If you haven&#8217;t read her post and comments I suggest you do.<br />I will not engage trolls again.</p>
<p>If you run across such quotes and are suspicious, please go to The Talmud Exposed (google it) which is &#8220;a project to provide responses to the anti-Semites who post alleged quotes from the Talmud and other anti-Jewish propaganda in a way intended to promote hatred of Jews.&#8221;</p>
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		<title>
		By: Sally		</title>
		<link>https://thenewneo.com/2006/06/24/and-voice-of-neo-neocon-is-heard-in/#comment-17880</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Sally]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 26 Jun 2006 05:11:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://neoneocon.com/2006/06/and-voice-of-neo-neocon-is-heard-in.html#comment-17880</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Charlie (and Douglas, and for the record):&lt;BR/&gt;&lt;BR/&gt;Regarding this 18 year old incident -- &lt;BR/&gt;&lt;BR/&gt;Here&#039;s what, and all of what, Ariel said:&lt;BR/&gt;&lt;I&gt;The downing by the Vincinnes was a mistake and owned up to, as well as paid for. Reagan gave his apologies to all concerned.&lt;/I&gt;&lt;BR/&gt;&lt;BR/&gt;Here&#039;s what Reagan said at the time:&lt;BR/&gt;&lt;I&gt;This is a terrible human tragedy. Our sympathy and condolences go out to the passengers, crew and their families. &lt;/I&gt;&lt;BR/&gt;(Which may not be strictly an &quot;apology&quot;, but which is pretty close.)&lt;BR/&gt;&lt;BR/&gt;And here&#039;s what the US paid to the families involved: US$61.8 million.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Charlie (and Douglas, and for the record):</p>
<p>Regarding this 18 year old incident &#8212; </p>
<p>Here&#8217;s what, and all of what, Ariel said:<br /><i>The downing by the Vincinnes was a mistake and owned up to, as well as paid for. Reagan gave his apologies to all concerned.</i></p>
<p>Here&#8217;s what Reagan said at the time:<br /><i>This is a terrible human tragedy. Our sympathy and condolences go out to the passengers, crew and their families. </i><br />(Which may not be strictly an &#8220;apology&#8221;, but which is pretty close.)</p>
<p>And here&#8217;s what the US paid to the families involved: US$61.8 million.</p>
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		<title>
		By: confusedforeigner		</title>
		<link>https://thenewneo.com/2006/06/24/and-voice-of-neo-neocon-is-heard-in/#comment-17881</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[confusedforeigner]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 26 Jun 2006 05:11:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://neoneocon.com/2006/06/and-voice-of-neo-neocon-is-heard-in.html#comment-17881</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[At 7:38 AM, June 26, 2006, douglas said...&lt;BR/&gt;&quot;At 10:45 PM, June 25, 2006, confudeforeigner said... &lt;BR/&gt;Ariel said...&lt;BR/&gt;&lt;BR/&gt;The downing by the Vincinnes was a mistake and owned up to, as well as paid for. Reagan gave his apologies to all concerned.&lt;BR/&gt;&lt;BR/&gt;&lt;BR/&gt;&lt;BR/&gt;So, Ariel, care to comment on these factually incorrect statements?&quot;&lt;BR/&gt;&lt;BR/&gt;She is factually correct. I just read the entire transcript you linked to. When you re-read it, keep in mind the block-quote boxes used to insert references are inserted by secondary authors.&lt;BR/&gt;&lt;BR/&gt;&lt;BR/&gt;&lt;BR/&gt;Hmmm, well no Douglas. The shooting down may have been an accident, but it was certainly avoidable and would NOT have occurred if the Vincennes had been in international waters as they claimed. They then also tried to create a story regarding a tanker being in distress. Only problem was, the tanker didn&#039;t exist. Funny that.&lt;BR/&gt;&lt;BR/&gt;Your statement that Rogers had no way of knowing what the aircraft was is palpably false. Read the story again.&lt;BR/&gt;&lt;BR/&gt;There are serious doubts about who actually set the mines that hit the tankers too.&lt;BR/&gt;&lt;BR/&gt;Reagan never apologised, the US lied regarding ALL the circumstances and they fought paying compensation right to the bitter end when they settled out of court. Reagan lied to congress and the UN and was responsible for false testimony being submitted to the World Court in the Hague.&lt;BR/&gt;&lt;BR/&gt;The treatment of the story that I&#039;ve linked to is pretty mild on the US, being a proUS media outlet.&lt;BR/&gt;&lt;BR/&gt;The hard evidence is even more damning.&lt;BR/&gt;&lt;BR/&gt;Yet Rogers was decorated and the Libyans got blamed for Lockerbie. &lt;BR/&gt;&lt;BR/&gt;Reagan was never censured for misleading the people of the USA, the UN and the World Court.&lt;BR/&gt;&lt;BR/&gt;But, the statement was made by Obersturmfeuhrer Ariel who hasn&#039;t the balls to defend it. War, lies and videotape. Family values eh?]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>At 7:38 AM, June 26, 2006, douglas said&#8230;<br />&#8220;At 10:45 PM, June 25, 2006, confudeforeigner said&#8230; <br />Ariel said&#8230;</p>
<p>The downing by the Vincinnes was a mistake and owned up to, as well as paid for. Reagan gave his apologies to all concerned.</p>
<p>So, Ariel, care to comment on these factually incorrect statements?&#8221;</p>
<p>She is factually correct. I just read the entire transcript you linked to. When you re-read it, keep in mind the block-quote boxes used to insert references are inserted by secondary authors.</p>
<p>Hmmm, well no Douglas. The shooting down may have been an accident, but it was certainly avoidable and would NOT have occurred if the Vincennes had been in international waters as they claimed. They then also tried to create a story regarding a tanker being in distress. Only problem was, the tanker didn&#8217;t exist. Funny that.</p>
<p>Your statement that Rogers had no way of knowing what the aircraft was is palpably false. Read the story again.</p>
<p>There are serious doubts about who actually set the mines that hit the tankers too.</p>
<p>Reagan never apologised, the US lied regarding ALL the circumstances and they fought paying compensation right to the bitter end when they settled out of court. Reagan lied to congress and the UN and was responsible for false testimony being submitted to the World Court in the Hague.</p>
<p>The treatment of the story that I&#8217;ve linked to is pretty mild on the US, being a proUS media outlet.</p>
<p>The hard evidence is even more damning.</p>
<p>Yet Rogers was decorated and the Libyans got blamed for Lockerbie. </p>
<p>Reagan was never censured for misleading the people of the USA, the UN and the World Court.</p>
<p>But, the statement was made by Obersturmfeuhrer Ariel who hasn&#8217;t the balls to defend it. War, lies and videotape. Family values eh?</p>
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		<title>
		By: neoneoconned		</title>
		<link>https://thenewneo.com/2006/06/24/and-voice-of-neo-neocon-is-heard-in/#comment-17882</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[neoneoconned]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 26 Jun 2006 05:11:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://neoneocon.com/2006/06/and-voice-of-neo-neocon-is-heard-in.html#comment-17882</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[&lt;B&gt;I&#039;m a visual and auditory learner for some weird reason.&lt;BR/&gt;&lt;/B&gt; is this because it is the form your hallucinations arrive in.&lt;BR/&gt;&lt;BR/&gt;Good luck charlie I give it a week before you are declared a troll.&lt;BR/&gt;&lt;BR/&gt;I met a traveler from an antique land&lt;BR/&gt;Who said: Two vast and trunkless legs of stone&lt;BR/&gt;Stand in the desert. Near them, on the sand,&lt;BR/&gt;Half sunk, a shattered visage lies, whose frown,&lt;BR/&gt;And wrinkled lip, and sneer of cold command,&lt;BR/&gt;Tell that its sculptor well those passions read,&lt;BR/&gt;Which yet survive, stamped on these lifeless things,&lt;BR/&gt;The hand that mocked them, and the heart that fed,&lt;BR/&gt;And on the pedestal these words appear:&lt;BR/&gt;&quot;My name is Ozymandias, King of Kings:&lt;BR/&gt;Look upon my works, ye Mighty, and despair!&quot;&lt;BR/&gt;Nothing beside remains. Round the decay&lt;BR/&gt;Of that colossal wreck, boundless and bare&lt;BR/&gt;The lone and level sands stretch far away.&lt;BR/&gt;&lt;BR/&gt;-Percy Bysshe Shelley&lt;BR/&gt;1792-1822]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><b>I&#8217;m a visual and auditory learner for some weird reason.<br /></b> is this because it is the form your hallucinations arrive in.</p>
<p>Good luck charlie I give it a week before you are declared a troll.</p>
<p>I met a traveler from an antique land<br />Who said: Two vast and trunkless legs of stone<br />Stand in the desert. Near them, on the sand,<br />Half sunk, a shattered visage lies, whose frown,<br />And wrinkled lip, and sneer of cold command,<br />Tell that its sculptor well those passions read,<br />Which yet survive, stamped on these lifeless things,<br />The hand that mocked them, and the heart that fed,<br />And on the pedestal these words appear:<br />&#8220;My name is Ozymandias, King of Kings:<br />Look upon my works, ye Mighty, and despair!&#8221;<br />Nothing beside remains. Round the decay<br />Of that colossal wreck, boundless and bare<br />The lone and level sands stretch far away.</p>
<p>-Percy Bysshe Shelley<br />1792-1822</p>
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		<title>
		By: Ymarsakar		</title>
		<link>https://thenewneo.com/2006/06/24/and-voice-of-neo-neocon-is-heard-in/#comment-17883</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Ymarsakar]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 26 Jun 2006 05:11:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://neoneocon.com/2006/06/and-voice-of-neo-neocon-is-heard-in.html#comment-17883</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[I&#039;m a visual and auditory learner for some weird reason.&lt;BR/&gt;&lt;BR/&gt;But the visuals aren&#039;t words, but rather diagrams and pictures, sort of like 5% dyslexia.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;m a visual and auditory learner for some weird reason.</p>
<p>But the visuals aren&#8217;t words, but rather diagrams and pictures, sort of like 5% dyslexia.</p>
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		<title>
		By: neo-neocon		</title>
		<link>https://thenewneo.com/2006/06/24/and-voice-of-neo-neocon-is-heard-in/#comment-17884</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[neo-neocon]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 26 Jun 2006 05:11:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://neoneocon.com/2006/06/and-voice-of-neo-neocon-is-heard-in.html#comment-17884</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[douglas: I&#039;m a visual learner, too, and don&#039;t do as well with taking in information auditorially.  &lt;A HREF=&quot;http://neo-neocon.blogspot.com/2006/02/dancer-from-dance.html&quot; REL=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;See this&lt;/A&gt;.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>douglas: I&#8217;m a visual learner, too, and don&#8217;t do as well with taking in information auditorially.  <a HREF="http://neo-neocon.blogspot.com/2006/02/dancer-from-dance.html" REL="nofollow">See this</a>.</p>
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