I have repeatedly put this in context for you. Homicide and Prison population rates are hundreds of % higher per capita in the US than in the UK, or indeed any other developed country in the world. I give you that differing systems and cultures can result in trends that are hard to match up, but not by hundreds percent in two major categories, across the entire developed world. That strains credulity, it’s a wonder you can swallow such nonsense yourself.

The heady mix of your hyper nationalism and these rather banal factoids, has generated a surprising blizzard of torturous reasoning, desperate refutation and twisted logic.

Entertaining, but all your blather on the subject doesn’t get you around the facts. It just highlights how completely your hyper nationalism has degraded your critical thinking. Sad really.

As BMC unintentionally stated, his point wasn’t about the UK but about how the crime rates are higher in America than other nations.

However you are still stuck with higher homicide rates and prison populations (compared to developed countries), regardless of how disingenously you spin it.

Thus the only refutation he can provide, is that the UK’s crime rates are lower, yet they are still higher than the US. As the statistics prove, or as much as BMC’s stats can prove, the UK trades daily terrorism through burglaries, assaults, and being an assault victim to the US trading in less daily terrorism for more people being murdered because they didn’t feel the need to learn self-defense. It is either that, or people are being killed because they can fight back, and killing them is the only way not to be killed yourselves. When places like Britain disarm their population, the criminals have no need to kill anyone body, because nobody will try and stop them and nobody will fight back. Thus the people of Britain become the terrorized slave population of a mob like organization where here in the US, it is more like the Wild West where people fight it out based upon individualism.

If people will recall, many people complain that the US is trading their civil rights for security. Disarming citizens so that the murders go down while the property rights of people and the safety of their citizens are violated, seems not to be noticed as an inconsistency. BMC said it himself, he’d rather be assaulted with a baseball bat or a hand to hand weapon, than to be killed by a firearm. The logic that it is the US willing to give up our civil rights for security, is an attempt to project the world’s lack of self-confidence and liberty upon the United States. It is an unfortunate byproduct of making the people of the West into sheep, they will always complain about animals with teeth.

As BMC’s behavior proves, they really can’t tolerate a position dynamically different from their own without throwing things like “disengenous lies, only friend in the world” into the mix to supplement their lack of reasoning and logic skills. They have to make things personal, because it is personal to them that they are the ones sacrificing their liberty for security while the US is not.

The difference is simple. While I talk about what people like BMC does and why they are wrong, BMC talks about who and what people like me are. They shift the subject to who you are, and not what you believe. They do it unconsciously, so they will always deny it. As BMC will deny it, because he truly cannot see the logic problems with his own arguments.

It is quite a lot more complex than “America has money therefore can do what it wants”. The most notable thing I was speaking of was psychology. The ability to visualize a scenario, and predict with accuracy what both sides would do and WHY they would do it.

As we can see, any attempts to steer it from being about “America and Americans” lands with a return about “disengenous” spinning.

As a last note, I just provided the statistics and their titles and how I interpreted them. BMC sees this as an attack on some statement of his about the UK’s crime rate lowering. In most cases, these statistics benefit other people than BMC, and knee jerk reactionary thinking is not a good idea.

I never, at any point in this thread denied that the UK had a marginally higher crime rate than the US. I disputed the contention that crime has not been falling in the UK.

However, I do dispute your recent efforts to massage the gap to make it appear so much larger than it actually is. Not a terribly fair way to treat your only real friend in the world:-)

That said, the UK is practically the only country in the developed world that comes even close to US overall crime rates.

You note that the US has more convictions and you keep people in prison longer. Jesus you’re a genuis.

Did imagine the prison population were asexually reproducing:-)? You truly have become the master of stating the bland and obvious.

Wood for the trees alert: It didn’t occur to you that higher convictions and longer prison sentences are bad things? Especially given the US still has higher homicide rates and crimes rates when compared to almost any developed country?

No doubt you can find some categories of crime the US does better in than … someone.

However you are still stuck with higher homicide rates and prison populations (compared to developed countries), regardless of how disingenously you spin it.

You silly, silly man.

US has 2.2 million. Britain has 2.7 million once you adjust for the cer capital rate, in assaults.

So that 6% bmc talks about is half a million more assault victims in terms of actual comparison between the US and Britain. And the US has far more big cities than Britain, so the US should statistically have more assaults than Britain. This is of course, not even including how many assaults go unreported in Britain because the police won’t do anything about them.

http://www.nationmaster.com/graph-T/cri_ass_vic

2.8% of Britain is an assault victim.

http://www.nationmaster.com/graph-T/cri_bel_in_pol_eff

Britain has 15% less people believing in police efficiency than the US, and the US leads the pack.

http://www.nationmaster.com/graph-T/cri_car_the

US has 1.1 million car thefts.

GB has 2.0 million once you multiply GB”s pop by 6, to equal the US’s.

The US has a lot more cars than GB, I notice. Yet the rate is higher in GB than it is in the US.
http://www.nationmaster.com/graph-T/cri_con

#1 Egypt 3,576,010
#2 United Kingdom 1,398,270

That is how many are convicted. That is a lot of convictions, because the US would have to have 8 times 1.3 million to equal those convictions, which would put us AHEAD of Egypt, a police state.

Here is the perception of safety towards home invasion.

#4 United States 78%
#5 Denmark 75%
#6 Norway 68%
#7 Canada 66%
#8 Switzerland 64%
#9 Netherlands 62%
#10 United Kingdom 58%

http://www.nationmaster.com/graph-T/cri_per_of_saf_bur

Sentencing lengths.

#16 United States 29
#17 Portugal 26
#18 South Africa 26
#19 Lithuania 25
#20 Papua New Guinea 24
#21 Zimbabwe 24
#22 United Kingdom 15

could it be that the US has more people in jail because we keep them there in jail instead of releasing them?

http://www.nationmaster.com/graph-T/cri_sen_len

#1 Poland 1.8%
#2 Italy 1.3%
#3 Australia 1.2%
#4 United Kingdom 1.2%
#5 Slovenia 1.1%
#6 Portugal 1.1%
#7 France 1.1%
#8 Belgium 1%
#9 Canada 0.9%
#10 Sweden 0.9%
#11 Netherlands 0.8%
#12 New Zealand 0.7%
#13 Switzerland 0.7%
#14 Denmark 0.7%
#15 Saint Kitts and Nevis 0.7%
#16 Finland 0.6%
#17 United States 0.6%

Robbery victims up above.

These are the burglary victims below.

#1 United States 2,099,700
#2 United Kingdom 836,027

Adjusted by pop, UK is 5 million.

I’m a lot better at statistics because I can actually understand what they are telling me, instead of just finding in them what I want. The numbers don’t lie, but people do make mistakes when they interpret them.

France has a French problem because their gang problem is everywhere, even if lcoated in French slums, because of the French welfare and socialized system.

It is quite a lot more complex than “America has money therefore can do what it wants”. The most notable thing I was speaking of was psychology. The ability to visualize a scenario, and predict with accuracy what both sides would do and WHY they would do it.

My observations and predictions of what the US would do and the UN nations would do, is described by BMC as the US having money therefore they are allowed to do anything. Which is obviously not the point of my psychology based predictions and observations.

In terms of France, Europe, and the US. We have the curious story the statistics tell us, with all the qualifiers and addendums that everyone who has studied statistics knows about ahead of time without having it spelled out to them, and then we have the actual rioting and violence in Europe and France compared to the US.

So what the statistics purpotedly tell us, is somehow very different from the actual level of incitement and violence.

When people are willing to be terrorized in their homes, on a daily basis, rather than to risk being killed by a gun or using a gun to defend themselves, we start to see a decadent spiral into the Dark Ages basically where nobles protected the defenseless peasants and an aristocracy is thus created. That is a bad idea.

Just for you Ymar 😉

If you keep people in grinding poverty it often pisses them off. Will that cover it? Sheese.” History kindergarten.

No it’s not that simple. History if full of many more periods of long term oppression of the underclass. Revolution is the exception, and in fact, often required outside intervention to pull it off (even ours- from Spain and the French no less). The problem here is that you see it as “black/white”, “History Kindergarten”, and I see it as complex and major events as being the result of a confluence of circumstances and causes…

This line you threw in was particularly interesting-
“heck even in the Confederacy.”
The poor and oppressed in the confederacy (black slaves) weren’t the ones doing the revolting, were they?