Comments on: The sea of faith: the ebb and flow of religion https://thenewneo.com/2006/04/19/sea-of-faith-ebb-and-flow-of-religion/ A blog about political change, among other things Fri, 30 Sep 2011 03:46:59 +0000 hourly 1 https://wordpress.org/?v=7.0 By: Weston Zohn https://thenewneo.com/2006/04/19/sea-of-faith-ebb-and-flow-of-religion/#comment-271647 Fri, 30 Sep 2011 03:46:59 +0000 http://neoneocon.com/2006/04/sea-of-faith-ebb-and-flow-of-religion.html#comment-271647 I thought this quote was extremely accurate “Nothing can stop the man with the right mental attitude from achieving his goal; nothing on earth can help the man with the wrong mental attitude.” – Thomas Jefferson

]]> By: douglas https://thenewneo.com/2006/04/19/sea-of-faith-ebb-and-flow-of-religion/#comment-12947 Sun, 23 Apr 2006 09:56:00 +0000 http://neoneocon.com/2006/04/sea-of-faith-ebb-and-flow-of-religion.html#comment-12947 No, sorry, not that link, this one:

yeah, this one

]]> By: douglas https://thenewneo.com/2006/04/19/sea-of-faith-ebb-and-flow-of-religion/#comment-12948 Sun, 23 Apr 2006 09:56:00 +0000 http://neoneocon.com/2006/04/sea-of-faith-ebb-and-flow-of-religion.html#comment-12948 you might also want to read this:

This

Your 1% figure is a bit off. There are also many, many shades of grey, but there’s quite a bit of the darker shades…

]]> By: douglas https://thenewneo.com/2006/04/19/sea-of-faith-ebb-and-flow-of-religion/#comment-12949 Sun, 23 Apr 2006 09:56:00 +0000 http://neoneocon.com/2006/04/sea-of-faith-ebb-and-flow-of-religion.html#comment-12949 I guess when we see celebrations in the streets of things like McVeigh, and the KKK, then I’ll get out and protest. In fact, I think we HAVE seen protests and attempts to stop celebrations of the KKK (Skokie for instance). Show me the equivalent in Muslim culture? Perhaps it’s not because there aren’t any ‘moderate’ muslims (my friends find distasteful and I don’t believe would engage in terror, but they won’t condemn it in any real way), but perhaps there aren’t enough to do a counter protest without getting killed. Have you thought about that? 90-10%? Did you see the PRO-terror protests in the UK? Where were the ‘moderates’? Invisible ‘moderates’ who allow the ‘radicals’ to be the voice of their group are in some way complicit, are they not? I’m not saying it’s not a terrible personal dilemma to be in, but It’s still true. If it really is 90-10 as you assert, surely you can show me links to hundreds of islamic websites denouncing terror and standing up against the radicals…

and of course, you know damn well McVeigh Wasn’t ‘Christian’…

I’d also ask you to come up with a longer list besides your few anomalies… It’s a little different when talking about Islam, no?

]]> By: Spanky the Questioning https://thenewneo.com/2006/04/19/sea-of-faith-ebb-and-flow-of-religion/#comment-12950 Sun, 23 Apr 2006 09:56:00 +0000 http://neoneocon.com/2006/04/sea-of-faith-ebb-and-flow-of-religion.html#comment-12950 Cute, Douglas.

No, actually, I mean: at what point do you and your Christian, American neighbors get out in the streets and demonstrate against, say, Timothy McVeigh’s compatriots, who are still active, or the Militia movement, or the KKK, or the IRA, or Jewish terrorist groups in Israel?

I don’t like the KKK, but as an American I don’t feel responsibility for organizing a mass protest movement to condemn it.

Has it ever occurred to you that 99% of a group doesn’t bear responsibility for the actions of 1% of the group? That if the only thing they have in common is that both sets of people call themselves “Muslim”, that they might not even consider themselves responsible in the same way that you probably don’t consider yourself responsible for “Christians” like McVeigh? Or that to protest them, solely on the virtue that they are Muslims, is to assume that the problem is with Islam and not with the people commiting violence?

]]> By: douglas https://thenewneo.com/2006/04/19/sea-of-faith-ebb-and-flow-of-religion/#comment-12951 Sun, 23 Apr 2006 09:56:00 +0000 http://neoneocon.com/2006/04/sea-of-faith-ebb-and-flow-of-religion.html#comment-12951 “and if you read my post i do not paint the battle of britain and dresden as moral equivalents. The former was a battle between two airforces. The latter was the ruel bombing of an open city that killed many civilians, refugees and pows. Which is wht the B of B is not on the list….but Shatila and My Lai are.“

How about, ‘the battle of britain was the cruel bombing of an open city that killed many civilians, and opened the door on aerial bombardment of civilian centers which cost the lives of literally millions of Europeans and Japanese.’

not exactly a simple crime like My Lai, and who can say exactly what Jenin, er, I mean Shatila was about…

BTW, I do respect you for your candor, David. I just don’t always like your arguments. And I feel a bit badly about the ‘personal attack’, but it was a sensitive point with me. Sorry.

]]> By: douglas https://thenewneo.com/2006/04/19/sea-of-faith-ebb-and-flow-of-religion/#comment-12952 Sun, 23 Apr 2006 09:56:00 +0000 http://neoneocon.com/2006/04/sea-of-faith-ebb-and-flow-of-religion.html#comment-12952 “Interesting point: Muslims don’t condemn terrorism of other Muslims.

Have you ever staged a demonstration against terrorism committed by members of your religion/religious community/religiously defined “civilization”?

If by “terrorism committed by members of your religion/religious community/religiously defined “civilization” you mean the United States, or Christianity, if there were something current like what’s occuring from radical islam, then of course I would. But I am not at issue- There certainly are people in the United States demonstrating against the ‘evils’ of Bush, Halliburton, Big Oil, etc…
Where’s the reciprocal from Islam?

“At what point do you feel responsibility to speak out against evil commited by people tangentially associated with you?”

I denounce you.

]]> By: Spanky the Good https://thenewneo.com/2006/04/19/sea-of-faith-ebb-and-flow-of-religion/#comment-12953 Sun, 23 Apr 2006 09:56:00 +0000 http://neoneocon.com/2006/04/sea-of-faith-ebb-and-flow-of-religion.html#comment-12953 Interesting point: Muslims don’t condemn terrorism of other Muslims.

Have you ever staged a demonstration against terrorism committed by members of your religion/religious community/religiously defined “civilization”?

At what point do you feel responsibility to speak out against evil commited by people tangentially associated with you?

]]> By: david https://thenewneo.com/2006/04/19/sea-of-faith-ebb-and-flow-of-religion/#comment-12954 Sun, 23 Apr 2006 09:56:00 +0000 http://neoneocon.com/2006/04/sea-of-faith-ebb-and-flow-of-religion.html#comment-12954 i was discussing the b of b from an anglocentric view not the whole list, which, as you noticed does th efull range.

]]> By: douglas https://thenewneo.com/2006/04/19/sea-of-faith-ebb-and-flow-of-religion/#comment-12955 Sun, 23 Apr 2006 09:56:00 +0000 http://neoneocon.com/2006/04/sea-of-faith-ebb-and-flow-of-religion.html#comment-12955 “To be honest when i was discussing the Battle of Britain it was from an anglo-centric view. We were in the right and fought nobly against an evil enemy. The bombing of Dresden was not such an event and may well come under the heading of war crime.”

Not quite. Your list included atrocities from both sides. You can’t now claim it was a one sided (anglo centric) list. What I was saying is perhaps you should’ve included B of B as a German atrocity, one which opened the door to, and perhaps legitimized things like Dresden (and Hamburg, and Berlin, and Tokyo, and Hiroshima…)

“As for the discussion around the nature of muslims i have to say i find it depressing. Are you seriously suggesting that at heart all muslims, secretly, are anti-western and pro-terrorism… …It is racism and it is simplistic.”

No, I’m saying they won’t condemn it. They make excuses for it, they TOLERATE it. bad enough, isn’t it. Perhaps even worse than supporting it, because it camoflages it from people like you…

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