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	Comments on: How the left lost its way	</title>
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	<link>https://thenewneo.com/2005/12/03/how-left-lost-its-way/</link>
	<description>A blog about political change, among other things</description>
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		<title>
		By: RickInNY		</title>
		<link>https://thenewneo.com/2005/12/03/how-left-lost-its-way/#comment-7055</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[RickInNY]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 04 Dec 2005 18:46:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://neoneocon.com/2005/12/how-left-lost-its-way.html#comment-7055</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[It seems to me that there are four basic arguments against the US military campaign.  Three have elements of legitimacy, and can be debated on merit, logic, and reason.  Those three arguments are advanced by the principled pacifist, the conservative isolationist, and the pragmatic realist.  I do not subscribe to any of the three, but their adherents can at least make for a civilized discussion.  &lt;BR/&gt;On the other hand, the forth argument, advanced by the more deranged members of the left, is a full scale opposition to Bush (for the sake of argument, the Bush haters) regardless of circumstance.  By extension, there is an implicit rejection of all things Western, the US, capitalism, and Israel.&lt;BR/&gt;I have always been fascinated by the paradox of the left, claiming the mantle of liberalism while rejecting the  foundations allowing its advance.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It seems to me that there are four basic arguments against the US military campaign.  Three have elements of legitimacy, and can be debated on merit, logic, and reason.  Those three arguments are advanced by the principled pacifist, the conservative isolationist, and the pragmatic realist.  I do not subscribe to any of the three, but their adherents can at least make for a civilized discussion.  <br />On the other hand, the forth argument, advanced by the more deranged members of the left, is a full scale opposition to Bush (for the sake of argument, the Bush haters) regardless of circumstance.  By extension, there is an implicit rejection of all things Western, the US, capitalism, and Israel.<br />I have always been fascinated by the paradox of the left, claiming the mantle of liberalism while rejecting the  foundations allowing its advance.</p>
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		<title>
		By: kcom		</title>
		<link>https://thenewneo.com/2005/12/03/how-left-lost-its-way/#comment-7056</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[kcom]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 04 Dec 2005 18:46:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://neoneocon.com/2005/12/how-left-lost-its-way.html#comment-7056</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[&quot;Now you might think it wouldn&#039;t take much alteration of their beliefs for those on the Right to be concerned about the death of 2,100 of their fellow citizens,...&quot;&lt;BR/&gt;&lt;BR/&gt;&quot;But not only are they untroubled by these things. Tellingly, they can&#039;t even imagine another person who would be.&quot;&lt;BR/&gt;&lt;BR/&gt;I would posit just the opposite.  We are overwhelming the ones troubled by the deaths of American soldiers.  People of your type are simply using them as political footballs to advance an agenda.  Your concern for actual soldiers seems minimal.  You care about numbers and not about individuals.  How many milblogs do you read, how much money have you sent to the USO or other organizations that support soldiers&#039; real needs, what have you done to make their jobs easier?  Funny but they don&#039;t seem to count you doing everything you can to undercut their mission as &quot;supporting&quot; them.&lt;BR/&gt;&lt;BR/&gt;We understand their bravery and their willingness to takes risks on our behalf.  We honor them for their sacrifices and the decision they made to volunteer.  They (and we who support their mission) realize they are making those sacrifices for the greater good.  They know that people who came before them did the same for them and for all of us.  I would suggest that we understand what they are risking (and in some cases, giving) their lives for whereas you have proven yourselves clueless. People honoring an idea bigger than themselves and willing to risk their very lives to achieve it is outside the life experience provided by your stunted world view.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;Now you might think it wouldn&#8217;t take much alteration of their beliefs for those on the Right to be concerned about the death of 2,100 of their fellow citizens,&#8230;&#8221;</p>
<p>&#8220;But not only are they untroubled by these things. Tellingly, they can&#8217;t even imagine another person who would be.&#8221;</p>
<p>I would posit just the opposite.  We are overwhelming the ones troubled by the deaths of American soldiers.  People of your type are simply using them as political footballs to advance an agenda.  Your concern for actual soldiers seems minimal.  You care about numbers and not about individuals.  How many milblogs do you read, how much money have you sent to the USO or other organizations that support soldiers&#8217; real needs, what have you done to make their jobs easier?  Funny but they don&#8217;t seem to count you doing everything you can to undercut their mission as &#8220;supporting&#8221; them.</p>
<p>We understand their bravery and their willingness to takes risks on our behalf.  We honor them for their sacrifices and the decision they made to volunteer.  They (and we who support their mission) realize they are making those sacrifices for the greater good.  They know that people who came before them did the same for them and for all of us.  I would suggest that we understand what they are risking (and in some cases, giving) their lives for whereas you have proven yourselves clueless. People honoring an idea bigger than themselves and willing to risk their very lives to achieve it is outside the life experience provided by your stunted world view.</p>
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		<title>
		By: TalkinKamel		</title>
		<link>https://thenewneo.com/2005/12/03/how-left-lost-its-way/#comment-7057</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[TalkinKamel]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 04 Dec 2005 18:46:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://neoneocon.com/2005/12/how-left-lost-its-way.html#comment-7057</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[copithorne: &lt;BR/&gt;&lt;BR/&gt;Those on the Left do not seem to have been much affected by the deaths of over 3,000 Americans on 9/11.  Suicide bombings, perpetrated against Israeli civilians didn&#039;t seem to bother them at all---many on the Left said they were justified!&lt;BR/&gt;&lt;BR/&gt;They weren&#039;t bothered by the thousands of Iraqis mudered by Saddam, the Americans killed in numerous embassy bombings, and aboard the US Cole during the Clinton Administration.  They supported the war in Kosovo, even without UN approval.  &lt;BR/&gt;&lt;BR/&gt;Heck, the Left isn&#039;t sorry about the Vietnamese who were killed, forced to flee their country or buried alive in &quot;re-education camps&quot; after the Vietcong took over.&lt;BR/&gt;&lt;BR/&gt;Yet now, we&#039;re supposed to believe they&#039;re the ones with a conscience?]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>copithorne: </p>
<p>Those on the Left do not seem to have been much affected by the deaths of over 3,000 Americans on 9/11.  Suicide bombings, perpetrated against Israeli civilians didn&#8217;t seem to bother them at all&#8212;many on the Left said they were justified!</p>
<p>They weren&#8217;t bothered by the thousands of Iraqis mudered by Saddam, the Americans killed in numerous embassy bombings, and aboard the US Cole during the Clinton Administration.  They supported the war in Kosovo, even without UN approval.  </p>
<p>Heck, the Left isn&#8217;t sorry about the Vietnamese who were killed, forced to flee their country or buried alive in &#8220;re-education camps&#8221; after the Vietcong took over.</p>
<p>Yet now, we&#8217;re supposed to believe they&#8217;re the ones with a conscience?</p>
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		<title>
		By: copithorne		</title>
		<link>https://thenewneo.com/2005/12/03/how-left-lost-its-way/#comment-7058</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[copithorne]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 04 Dec 2005 18:46:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://neoneocon.com/2005/12/how-left-lost-its-way.html#comment-7058</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Now you might think it wouldn&#039;t take much alteration of their beliefs for those on the Right to be concerned about the death of 2,100 of their fellow citizens, the maiming of 15,000 of their fellow citizens, the stealing of $250 billion from future generations, the killing of tens of thousands of Iraqi civilians, the destruction of America&#039;s armed forces and reputation in the world.&lt;BR/&gt;&lt;BR/&gt;But not only are they untroubled by these things. Tellingly, they can&#039;t even imagine another person who would be. They can&#039;t even imagine an American who would value the lives of their fellow citizens. &lt;BR/&gt;&lt;BR/&gt;Now why would this be so? I really don&#039;t pretend to have an answer. A psychologist might posit that the inability to even imagine other people being concerned for their fellow citizens is an symptom of sociopathy. I prefer to see that their lack of concern is part of a group trance I call the circle dance...]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Now you might think it wouldn&#8217;t take much alteration of their beliefs for those on the Right to be concerned about the death of 2,100 of their fellow citizens, the maiming of 15,000 of their fellow citizens, the stealing of $250 billion from future generations, the killing of tens of thousands of Iraqi civilians, the destruction of America&#8217;s armed forces and reputation in the world.</p>
<p>But not only are they untroubled by these things. Tellingly, they can&#8217;t even imagine another person who would be. They can&#8217;t even imagine an American who would value the lives of their fellow citizens. </p>
<p>Now why would this be so? I really don&#8217;t pretend to have an answer. A psychologist might posit that the inability to even imagine other people being concerned for their fellow citizens is an symptom of sociopathy. I prefer to see that their lack of concern is part of a group trance I call the circle dance&#8230;</p>
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		<title>
		By: kcom		</title>
		<link>https://thenewneo.com/2005/12/03/how-left-lost-its-way/#comment-7059</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[kcom]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 04 Dec 2005 18:46:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://neoneocon.com/2005/12/how-left-lost-its-way.html#comment-7059</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[&quot;I mean, same old same old, and he is surprised and hurt? It&#039;s not like this sort of hypocrisy has not been SOP on the left, going back, lo, these many years to at least the October coup in Russia.&quot;&lt;BR/&gt;&lt;BR/&gt;I&#039;ll just hit you with two old sayings in response to that:&lt;BR/&gt;&lt;BR/&gt;Better late than never.&lt;BR/&gt;&lt;BR/&gt;- and -&lt;BR/&gt;&lt;BR/&gt;A journey of a thousand miles begins with a single step.&lt;BR/&gt;&lt;BR/&gt;The important point is that he is coming from the inside.  They can&#039;t dismiss him as some neocon intruder into their cozy little world.  He&#039;s proving that just because you&#039;re &quot;of the left&quot; doesn&#039;t mean you have to be a terrorist apologist.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;I mean, same old same old, and he is surprised and hurt? It&#8217;s not like this sort of hypocrisy has not been SOP on the left, going back, lo, these many years to at least the October coup in Russia.&#8221;</p>
<p>I&#8217;ll just hit you with two old sayings in response to that:</p>
<p>Better late than never.</p>
<p>&#8211; and &#8211;</p>
<p>A journey of a thousand miles begins with a single step.</p>
<p>The important point is that he is coming from the inside.  They can&#8217;t dismiss him as some neocon intruder into their cozy little world.  He&#8217;s proving that just because you&#8217;re &#8220;of the left&#8221; doesn&#8217;t mean you have to be a terrorist apologist.</p>
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		By: Paul		</title>
		<link>https://thenewneo.com/2005/12/03/how-left-lost-its-way/#comment-7060</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Paul]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 04 Dec 2005 18:46:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://neoneocon.com/2005/12/how-left-lost-its-way.html#comment-7060</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[The Left has made a virtue of political expediency.  They laid down with the Communists for years and are doing the same thing now with Islamofascists. The point is to denigrate and weaken America by any means possible.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The Left has made a virtue of political expediency.  They laid down with the Communists for years and are doing the same thing now with Islamofascists. The point is to denigrate and weaken America by any means possible.</p>
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		<title>
		By: camojack		</title>
		<link>https://thenewneo.com/2005/12/03/how-left-lost-its-way/#comment-7061</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[camojack]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 04 Dec 2005 18:46:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://neoneocon.com/2005/12/how-left-lost-its-way.html#comment-7061</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[&lt;B&gt;Three&lt;/B&gt; lefts make a &lt;I&gt;right&lt;/I&gt;...]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><b>Three</b> lefts make a <i>right</i>&#8230;</p>
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		<title>
		By: Tom Grey		</title>
		<link>https://thenewneo.com/2005/12/03/how-left-lost-its-way/#comment-7062</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Tom Grey]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 04 Dec 2005 18:46:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://neoneocon.com/2005/12/how-left-lost-its-way.html#comment-7062</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[The Left is caught in their own version of Kerry&#039;s Lie about Vietnam.&lt;BR/&gt;&lt;BR/&gt;Desired policy: Out now.&lt;BR/&gt;Policy taken: Out now (as of 1974, cut off of funding).&lt;BR/&gt;Result: end of war -- SE Asian genocide.&lt;BR/&gt;&lt;BR/&gt;The Left supported policies that resulted in genocide.  And yet they claim &quot;Moral Superiority&quot;.&lt;BR/&gt;&lt;BR/&gt;Denial and guilt.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The Left is caught in their own version of Kerry&#8217;s Lie about Vietnam.</p>
<p>Desired policy: Out now.<br />Policy taken: Out now (as of 1974, cut off of funding).<br />Result: end of war &#8212; SE Asian genocide.</p>
<p>The Left supported policies that resulted in genocide.  And yet they claim &#8220;Moral Superiority&#8221;.</p>
<p>Denial and guilt.</p>
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		<title>
		By: chuck		</title>
		<link>https://thenewneo.com/2005/12/03/how-left-lost-its-way/#comment-7063</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[chuck]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 04 Dec 2005 18:46:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://neoneocon.com/2005/12/how-left-lost-its-way.html#comment-7063</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[kcom,&lt;BR/&gt;&lt;BR/&gt;&lt;I&gt;It&#039;s quite apparent from his posts and his private correspondence that he is at a loss as to why people he wants to respect and should be at home with have wandered so far afield into apologias for terrorists, thugs, and oppressors.&lt;/I&gt;&lt;BR/&gt;&lt;BR/&gt;I like normblog, but it is quite apparent that Norm was a bit naive about his chosen political  affiliations. I mean, same old same old, and he is surprised and hurt? It&#039;s not like this sort of hypocrisy has not been SOP on the left, going back, lo, these many years to at least the October coup in Russia.&lt;BR/&gt;&lt;BR/&gt;Horowitz eventually discovered the same as Norm is discovering, but at least David had the excuse of being raised as a red diaper baby.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>kcom,</p>
<p><i>It&#8217;s quite apparent from his posts and his private correspondence that he is at a loss as to why people he wants to respect and should be at home with have wandered so far afield into apologias for terrorists, thugs, and oppressors.</i></p>
<p>I like normblog, but it is quite apparent that Norm was a bit naive about his chosen political  affiliations. I mean, same old same old, and he is surprised and hurt? It&#8217;s not like this sort of hypocrisy has not been SOP on the left, going back, lo, these many years to at least the October coup in Russia.</p>
<p>Horowitz eventually discovered the same as Norm is discovering, but at least David had the excuse of being raised as a red diaper baby.</p>
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		<title>
		By: kcom		</title>
		<link>https://thenewneo.com/2005/12/03/how-left-lost-its-way/#comment-7064</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[kcom]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 04 Dec 2005 18:46:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://neoneocon.com/2005/12/how-left-lost-its-way.html#comment-7064</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[I&#039;m the kcom mentioned by Neo-Neocon and I have to say that Norm Geras is my intellectual hero.  (I probably discovered her through him or vice versa, way back when.)  I&#039;m sure his views and mine diverge greatly on many issues since we come from different sides of the political spectrum, but on this issue he as been a steadfast beacon of light and hope, calling people home to the better angels of their nature.  It&#039;s quite apparent from his posts and his private correspondence that he is at a loss as to why people he wants to respect and should be at home with have wandered so far afield into apologias for terrorists, thugs, and oppressors.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;m the kcom mentioned by Neo-Neocon and I have to say that Norm Geras is my intellectual hero.  (I probably discovered her through him or vice versa, way back when.)  I&#8217;m sure his views and mine diverge greatly on many issues since we come from different sides of the political spectrum, but on this issue he as been a steadfast beacon of light and hope, calling people home to the better angels of their nature.  It&#8217;s quite apparent from his posts and his private correspondence that he is at a loss as to why people he wants to respect and should be at home with have wandered so far afield into apologias for terrorists, thugs, and oppressors.</p>
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