Comments on: The timing of the London bombings https://thenewneo.com/2005/07/09/timing-of-london-bombings/ A blog about political change, among other things Fri, 28 Aug 2009 10:32:45 +0000 hourly 1 https://wordpress.org/?v=7.0 By: Earn https://thenewneo.com/2005/07/09/timing-of-london-bombings/#comment-2464 Sat, 03 Mar 2007 07:00:00 +0000 http://neoneocon.com/2005/07/timing-of-london-bombings.html#comment-2464 Hello,

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]]> By: Scott A. Edwards https://thenewneo.com/2005/07/09/timing-of-london-bombings/#comment-2465 Sat, 03 Mar 2007 07:00:00 +0000 http://neoneocon.com/2005/07/timing-of-london-bombings.html#comment-2465 The fact is that the INTERNET is making people RICH! Shouldn’t YOU be one of them? Click here: FIND OUT NOW!

]]> By: Anonymous https://thenewneo.com/2005/07/09/timing-of-london-bombings/#comment-2466 Sat, 03 Mar 2007 07:00:00 +0000 http://neoneocon.com/2005/07/timing-of-london-bombings.html#comment-2466 This is in response to “anonymous”‘comments about Spain. I too am married to a Spaniard and he is NOT saying what you claim your wife and all the people you know are saying about March 11. The people you are quoting are being manipulated by the Spanish press (I suspect by El Pais) which is the right arm of the PSOE (disclaimer: I am a socialist, but do not support Zapatero’s government). If you had any clue as to what has been going on since March 11, you’d never talk about Spanish politics again. Aznar DID NOT manipulate the facts. Any person who has any connection to Spain would quickly assume that ETA was responsible for 3/11. That’s exactly what Zapatero, spokespeople for nationalist parties, radio stations (La Ser in particular)which tend to be to the “left” as well as most newspapers did on the morning of 3/11, along with Aznar. The whole country assumed it was ETA. Why was it that that just 2 weeks before 3/11, ETA had been caught with 1/2 ton of explosives on their way to Madrid? Do you know that ETA had been planning coordinated attacks on the train system months before 3/11?
How did you ever find out about the cassettes with Islamic verses that were found in the van? How did we find out about the video tape found in the garbage can? Didn’t we see that on TV? Hear it on the radio? Read it in the press? So explain to me how Aznar was manipulating and hiding the facts when we, over here in the states, were acquiring that information? Don’t you think if Aznar wanted to cover up the facts, he wouldn’t have let the police go public with the cassettes and video? Aznar and his administration made every bit of new evidence known to the public.
How would you explain Zapatero’s current negotiations with ETA? Don’t see any link there?
And what do you make of the new document found on the computer of “El Chino” (one of the 7 that later blew himself to pieces in Leganes)? The document found claims that the motive of 3/11 was to oust the government of Aznar. I’d do a little more fact checking if I were you and stop buying into the PSOE’s rhetorcic!

]]> By: sygamel https://thenewneo.com/2005/07/09/timing-of-london-bombings/#comment-2467 Sat, 03 Mar 2007 07:00:00 +0000 http://neoneocon.com/2005/07/timing-of-london-bombings.html#comment-2467 correction: It was clear to me a nation that opposed the Iraq War and supported the gov’t that initiated entry into that War did the the latter so long as it did not have repercussions.

]]> By: sygamel https://thenewneo.com/2005/07/09/timing-of-london-bombings/#comment-2468 Sat, 03 Mar 2007 07:00:00 +0000 http://neoneocon.com/2005/07/timing-of-london-bombings.html#comment-2468 That is correct. I never saw it as “caving to the terrorists”. It was clear to me a nation that opposed the Iraq War did so long as it did not have repercussions. This may explain why the incumbent party led in polls leading up to the attack. The 3/11 attacks appeared to them as such repercussions, and so they voted out the incumbent party. In Britain that would’ve been far less likely. So while I don’t see “caving to the terrorists” as the result, it’s clear that Al Qaeda could have a far easiertime of claiming just that in a Madrid attack.

]]> By: Anonymous https://thenewneo.com/2005/07/09/timing-of-london-bombings/#comment-2469 Sat, 03 Mar 2007 07:00:00 +0000 http://neoneocon.com/2005/07/timing-of-london-bombings.html#comment-2469 OK, sorry, Scott, I should know by now to make only one point at a time in these comment sections.

So ok I thought I had said it but I guess it was only implied: I do agree with *your* point. If a terrorist had to choose which one to bomb to try and influence an election, it would have been Spain.

Side point (I can’t resist) I do think we have a tendency to ascribe these kinds of attacks to some sort of “master planners” – sitting in a cave somewhere and saying “so first we’ll bomb Spain 3 days before the elections, then London right as the G8 is starting…” and I’m not sure that’s the case or if it is necessarily helpful to think that way. I do it myself though, it’s hard to resist.

Anyway, *My* point was that the ousting of the PP was a result of a majority of Spanish voters who opposed the war from the outset *and* insisted on having a government that was honest with them about the war on terror.

It was *not* a case of Spain “caving in to the terrorists,” as many people (not necessarily you Scott!) try to make it out to be.

That would only have been the case if, for example, 74% of the population supported the war in Iraq, then after the bombing a majority opposed it and voted for the PSOE.

Anon

]]> By: sygamel https://thenewneo.com/2005/07/09/timing-of-london-bombings/#comment-2470 Sat, 03 Mar 2007 07:00:00 +0000 http://neoneocon.com/2005/07/timing-of-london-bombings.html#comment-2470 “Democracy, Freedom, Liberty…” you guys are throwing these words around like they are the cure to all our problems, but when the voting doesn’t go your way, look out!

You’re responding to my post, yet I wrote nothing like the above. And your other statements — who are you addressing? Me? I’m the only one still here. Read my posts, anonymous. Stop assuming everyone is a neo-con.

I believe the beauty of democracy is it lets people best speak to how their government represents them. I think it would be a outright tragedy if the electorate of Iraq wanted us out, and/or did not become a US ally, AND with us promptly moving to “change” the government there. They have every right for their government do what they wish it to do, as long as their representatives come up for re-election. If they do not want to associate with the US and Britain, that is their right. It’s important that we support true democracies whichever way they turn–capitalistic, socialist etc. as long they don’t become totalitarian.

To reiterate, the entire point of my posting about the polling was simply to point out that if Al Qaeda wanted to claim they were influencing an election, they’d have a much easier time doing so by attacking Spain before their election instead of attacking Britain before theirs, because the Spanish people had a stronger initial predisposition against the Iraq War, and such association of a gov’t’s backing the Iraq War with domestic terrorism could more easily turn the Spanish people against the incumbent party.

Please stop the breathless accusations and actually read what I’m writing, if it is in fact me you are addressing.

]]> By: Anonymous https://thenewneo.com/2005/07/09/timing-of-london-bombings/#comment-2471 Sat, 03 Mar 2007 07:00:00 +0000 http://neoneocon.com/2005/07/timing-of-london-bombings.html#comment-2471 I posted the polling to show Al Qaeda would have a better chance at being able to *claim* to influence the Spanish election…

Not only Al Qaeda would be able to claim it, but neoconservatives as well, apparently. ; )

But anyway, ok, that was my point. It wasn’t a key issue, but it suddenly became a key issue, and the party responsible was voted out. Democracy at work. I asked before, what should Spanish voters have done? Suddenly all decide that it was a great idea to be in Iraq after all, just because “otherwise the terrorists would win”?

And is no one here willing to acknowledge the PP’s attempted deception in the aftermath which played a role in their defeat as well? Or is political accountability not a big issue with you?

“Democracy, Freedom, Liberty…” you guys are throwing these words around like they are the cure to all our problems, but when the voting doesn’t go your way, look out!

I often wonder if a democratic Iraq, if and when it gets up and running (and make no mistake, I sure hope it does, the sooner the better) is going to support US foreign policy as often as Britain does?

]]> By: sygamel https://thenewneo.com/2005/07/09/timing-of-london-bombings/#comment-2472 Sat, 03 Mar 2007 07:00:00 +0000 http://neoneocon.com/2005/07/timing-of-london-bombings.html#comment-2472 And the fact remains that a vast majority of the Spanish were not in favor of the war in Iraq under any circumstances. So that wasn’t a key issue for PP’s base anyway. They were supporting them for other reasons, such as economic and social policy.

I wasn’t a key issue until the attack occurred. Any voter among the 74% polled on 2/11/03 who connected “Aznar gov’t’s involvement in Iraq” with “3/11 subway attacks” and who was previously undecided or an Aznar voter could tip the election to the Zapatero gov’t.

I posted the polling to show Al Qaeda would have a better chance at being able to *claim* to influence the Spanish election than the British election.

]]> By: Anonymous https://thenewneo.com/2005/07/09/timing-of-london-bombings/#comment-2473 Sat, 03 Mar 2007 07:00:00 +0000 http://neoneocon.com/2005/07/timing-of-london-bombings.html#comment-2473 Sorry neo-neocon, all I know is what I read in the Spanish papers, and what my Spanish wife, and all her Spanish friends and family, and everyone I know from Spain told me. But I guess you know better, you have a blog.

If by “clear victory” you mean a lead of about 5% among likely voters that is correct, I guess. What the clumsy attempts by the PP to blame the ETA, despite all the evidence to the contrary, did was to disgust many likely voters and to encourage many more people to turn out to vote who wouldn’t have otherwise.

And the fact remains that a vast majority of the Spanish were not in favor of the war in Iraq under any circumstances. So that wasn’t a key issue for PP’s base anyway. They were supporting them for other reasons, such as economic and social policy.

And by the way, the correct spelling is “Aznar”, not “Anzar”. “Anzar” is how Bush says it. But since he controls reality now, maybe I’m wrong.

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